Template talk:Infobox European case

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[edit] Court cases

Ouch! Physchim62 (talk) 20:13, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, what? Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 20:14, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Expression of strong disagreement, while I collect my thoughts! ;) I know you're doing it in good faith, but I think we need more discussion on this one ;) Physchim62 (talk) 20:16, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
What do we want on these infoboxes? We obviously need a full case name, a short case name and a citation to the ECR. Are the names of the judges important? I included them on {{ECJ case infobox}} simply because I took the infobox from UK cases, but in much of European law the identity of the judge is not meant to be important… Enwiki doesn't usually have articles on ECJ judges. I also included a "keywords" parameter, to help indexing, which is missing on the current template.

Another non-minor point is whether or not we would wish the template to be extended to CFI and EFTA Court cases, and possibly even to ECHR cases (more difficult): at present, it only covers ECJ cases, but then those are the only one's we have articles about! Physchim62 (talk) 20:28, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

The judges parameters are not mandatory, only the parameters for the Judge-Rapporteur and the Advocate-General are (actually most parameters can be left out without making the template look ugly, even DateSubmitted and DateDecided are not mandatory). A keywords parameter can be included easily. Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 20:33, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Keywords parameter is there! Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 20:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Next I suggest that we change the title of the template to something like {{Infobox European case}} (my preference) or {{Infobox EU case}}, so that we can include more judgments and we don't end up with the problems we had over the legislation templates… Physchim62 (talk) 21:36, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

That way as well, our discussions will be recorded for posterity on a template talk page! Another point for ECJ cases: we need the {{{case_type}}} parameter from {{ECJ case infobox}}. While most cases are references for preliminary rulings like Peter Paul, there are some important cases which rely on other treaty provisions (such as conflicts between States and Union institutions, I have one in mind but I haven't written the article yet). The procedural history is really only important (IMHO) for cases which are also important in national law (such as Factortame I–V. Physchim62 (talk) 21:43, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

All done! This template can be used for European Court of Justice, Court of First Instance, EFTA Court, and European Union Civil Service Tribunal cases. The ECtHR is a court of the Council of Europe, and thus operates on an entirely different legal basis, so I think that one should not be included here... CaseType parameter is now there also... Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 22:13, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

The EFTA Court has its own logo, and doesn't include Switzerland in its jurisdiction, so we'll have to change that before we can have articles about those cases (we don't at the moment, although there is material for stubs at the EFTA Court article). As for the ECHR, it is on a different legal basis (as is the EFTA Court) but its procedures are similar: it would be nice to include it here to economise on templates. On the whole, I would say let's road-test it and adapt if necessary. Physchim62 (talk) 22:48, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I believe you are right, I concur :). The EFTA court now has its insignia and the ECtHR can now also be used in this template! Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 23:13, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Wow, it's rare that anyone suggests that I'm right on WP!!! :) I will try and do a test run on the Sveinbjörnsdóttir case (E-9/97) for the EFTA Court. For the ECtHR, I'm not sure where to start for a test-run: probably one or more of the lesser cases (we have plenty of articles) so that we don't upset too many people. Physchim62 (talk) 01:12, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

An ECtHR test run can be found at John Murray v. United Kingdom. As for a test run for the Court of First Instance, look at European Union Microsoft competition case. Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 02:05, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Short names

Another problem is that European cases are rarely referred to by an "X v Y" format. They usually have a short name which comes from the plaintiff, eg Factortame, Van Gend en Loos. By trying to fit the short name of the case to the article title, we are losing information as to how people actually refer to it. There should be a {{{short_title}}} parameter to override the pagename in these common circumstances IMHO. Physchim62 (talk) 01:04, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

There is a short_name parameter already, but it is not mentioned because copying an empty short_name messes with the template. Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 02:00, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

OK, I don't understand, but I'll take a closer look. What I would like is that the header at Van Gend en Loos v. Nederlandse Administratie der Belastingen were to say van Gend en Loos, which is how everyone knows the case… Physchim62 (talk) 02:53, 10 December 2008 (UTC)