Talk:Normandy Campaign

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Contents 1 Not ready 2 Casualties 3 Article overlap 3.1 Moves to be made 4 Poor reorganization 5 Poor disambiguation

[edit] Not ready

This page is far from ready for being a presented article (barely different then our Battle of Normandy). I'd like to recommend we move it to a users sub-page or give it a /temp qualification. Oberiko 16:19, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Casualties

I once again have to disagree with the German Casualties. We have one author claiming the killed and wounded are 80,000 in total when in general every book I have read has put that at over 200,000. On top of that Between the Normandy beaches and Paris are the graves of over 80,000 German dead from the Normandy Campaign. There are 6 German Cemeteries containing the dead for the Normandy Campaign.

     1)Huisnes-sur-Mer, near Pontorson, 11 956 burials

     2)La Cambe, between Bayeux and lsigny, 21 160 burials

     3)Saint-Desir-de-Lisieux, near Lisieux, 3 735 burials

     4)Marigny - La Chapelle-en-Juger, near Saint-Lo, 11 169 burials

     5)Orglandes, near Valognes, 10 152 burials

     6)Champigny-St-Andre-de-I'Eure, 19 794 burials

Plus 2 329 German soldiers who are buried on British cemeteries in Bayeux, Cheux-St. Manvieu, Douvres-la-Delivrande, Fontenay-le-Pesnel, Hottot-les-Bagues, Ranville, Ryes-Bazenville, Sequeville-en-Bessin, Tilly-sur-Seulles and Tourgeville.

So you are pretty much looking at just over 80,000 Germans burried in these Cemeteries. Some sites don't mention the last cemetery in their list, even excluding that one you are looking at over 50,000 deaths which are supported by John Keegan's book. Either way most literature puts the total German casualties at over 200,000, and for the most part the number of dead in the Cemeteries reflect that high casualty number is likely the correct one.

Wokelly (talk) 07:33, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article overlap

see also Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Military history/World War II task force#Operation Overlord & Talk:Battle of Normandy#Article Name

Either the Battle of Normandy should stop at the breakout from the Normandy lodgement, or the Normandy Campaign should become an overview like the Italian Campaign (World War II) (perhaps renaming this article to Allied liberation of France or some other descriptive name), or the Normandy Campaign should become a redirect with any useful information merged into the Battle of Normandy. What do other think? --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 13:08, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Military_history#Operation_Overlord

Discussion over what should be done has begun, hopefully we will all find a good soloution--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 13:22, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

We have a proposal up at here, please weigh in with feedback. Oberiko (talk) 16:51, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Moves to be made

Unless there are objections, we'll be using the following structure:

• Operation Overlord: Overview of the everything (sans things like Dragoon) up until the liberation of Paris (June 6 - Aug 25)
  • Invasion of Normandy: Invasion and establishment (June 6 - mid-July (Goodwood / Cobra))
    • Normandy Landings: Sub-page focusing on the naval and amphibious portion. A.K.A. Operation Neptune
  • Breakout from Normandy: The breakout and chase up to the liberation of Paris (Mid-July - Aug 25)

Disambiguation pages

• Battle of Normandy: Disambiguation linking to all of the above, plus other battles in Normandy (such as during the Hundred Years' War)
• Normandy Campaign: Same as Battle of Normandy, but with additional note of it being an official campaign in the American European Theater of Operations
• Operation Neptune: Disambiguation, takes over the current disambig page.

I'll likely move the pages in a few days. Please direct any feedback here, as I'm posting this notice on several pages. Oberiko (talk) 00:36, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Poor reorganization

The Official History of the Canadian Army in the Second World War defines the Battle of Normandy as covering the period 6 June to 1 September. It is clear that the US Army defines it differently than the British and Canadians. Why? Obviously, they were fighting in Normandy for less time! After COBRA the Americans had moved on to Brittany, but the Anglo-Canadians were still in Normandy for another month! What's worse is that the "invasion of Normandy" is not an academic term, but "Battle of Normandy' clearly is. The changes to the structure of the Battle of Normandy article are extremely poor and were obviously done without even glancing at the official histories of two of the three major participants on the Allied side. What's even worse than that is that there is no easy way to reference any information post July 25 in the Invasion of Normandy article without putzing around through infoboxes or having to know operational code words. What a mess.139.48.25.61 (talk) 15:14, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Poor disambiguation

This is now a poor example of a disambiguation page. All of the links contained on the page are subtopics of the same general topic; this would suggest that there should either be an article at this title that provides an overview of the general topic, or a redirect to an existing article (Operation Overlord, perhaps?) that already provides such an overview. At least as the various topics are defined on this page (without having reviewed any of the linked articles), it appears to the casual reader that Normandy Landings is a subtopic of Invasion of Normandy, which in turn is a subtopic of Operation Overlord. If that is not in fact correct, the page should be revised. And what happens to the poor reader who is perusing another article on some WW II-related topic and clicks on a link to Normandy Campaign? How are they supposed to know which of the articles listed here is most likely to be relevant to what they were reading about in the previous article? There are over one thousand links to this disambiguation page from other Wikipedia articles! --Russ (talk) 15:22, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Russ. --PBS (talk) 23:33, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

• Also, why do Battle of normandy and Battle of Normandy redirect to different pages? Agradman ^talk/_contribs 18:13, 7 July 2009 (UTC)